willtheorangeguy/2017-WAN-Show-Transcripts

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[627.84 --> 630.32] case, but let's say they did this and there was no confidentiality.
[630.32 --> 632.42] They just told him, oh, you're hired.
[632.48 --> 633.14] You started on Monday.
[633.62 --> 639.28] Even so, trade secret law, my understanding is it could still begin because it has to
[639.28 --> 639.94] be-
[639.94 --> 646.90] If it's information that isn't publicly available and there's some sort of, like, possible real
[646.90 --> 651.94] economic benefit or business benefit to that company, and they actually made efforts to
[651.94 --> 652.54] protect it.
[652.64 --> 656.24] Like, Google wasn't being all loosey-goosey with this information, but they were actually
[656.24 --> 657.06] trying to protect it.
[657.06 --> 657.36] Okay.
[657.48 --> 660.64] So, it's not like how to get to the bathroom on the second floor.
[660.76 --> 660.98] Right.
[661.06 --> 664.96] It's got to be something that's not publicly known and might have some sort of real economic
[664.96 --> 665.32] value.
[665.44 --> 670.20] So, as long as Google made reasonable efforts to protect that, then even if he had no
[670.20 --> 674.12] agreement saying, you can't sell this stuff to competitors, then they could still go after
[674.12 --> 674.58] him in court.
[674.96 --> 675.28] Okay.
[675.52 --> 677.42] So, if that's, oh, okay.
[677.60 --> 678.60] Just, and I'm just curious.
[678.68 --> 682.44] And again, I'm probably digging in a little bit deeper than your three weeks might have covered.
[682.44 --> 685.22] Or your correspondence law degree or whatever it is.
[685.50 --> 686.10] Oh, wow.
[686.10 --> 686.76] No, I'm just kidding.
[686.94 --> 690.48] Well, I did end up working here, so it's kind of what it feels like sometimes.
[693.06 --> 695.42] Okay, but let me dig a little bit deeper.
[695.84 --> 697.10] What if he didn't sell it?
[697.18 --> 705.40] Now, in this case, you can make a pretty easy case for that he sold it because he went and
[705.40 --> 709.88] started a company that clearly had this information and sold the company.
[709.88 --> 712.14] But what if he just gave it?
[712.30 --> 715.08] Is that a different type of offense?
[715.78 --> 716.50] I don't know.
[716.78 --> 719.98] As far as type, I'm not even sure how to characterize that.
[720.12 --> 724.60] But at the same time, I'm almost completely certain you still can't do that.
[724.78 --> 729.44] Obviously, I think there's some trade secret and some patent stuff going on here.
[729.48 --> 731.10] I'm not sure if they had a patent on any of this stuff or not.
[731.66 --> 733.88] But let's say there was a patent there.
[734.36 --> 738.82] A patent actually excludes other people even from making your invention for a set period of
[738.82 --> 739.04] time.
[739.04 --> 741.72] But some things are notoriously difficult to patent.
[741.72 --> 742.06] They are.
[742.24 --> 747.60] But the other part of that was this stuff looks more like trade secret than patent, right?
[747.72 --> 750.46] Because patents are publicly available.
[750.66 --> 753.06] You can go and you can look at them, but you just can't make it or sell it.
[753.52 --> 763.06] So to answer your question, I don't think the fact that if he didn't sell this stuff,
[763.20 --> 765.14] I don't think that would just completely get him off the hook.
[765.14 --> 765.42] Right.
[765.64 --> 770.66] And in this case, I think it was Nphishin in Twitch chat pointed out that we're talking
[770.66 --> 771.72] hypotheticals here.
[771.84 --> 777.52] Google is a smart and together enough company that I pretty much guarantee you every person
[777.52 --> 781.68] who sets foot through that door has signed a piece of paper that says something about
[781.68 --> 786.06] how you don't steal their stuff, let alone high ranking engineers.
[786.36 --> 787.18] So we get that.
[787.36 --> 792.68] But Nphishin also pointed out that usually some kind of...
[793.96 --> 794.36] Wow.
[794.56 --> 794.94] Why?
[794.94 --> 796.26] The word has escaped me.
[796.32 --> 798.22] It has been actually a very long week, folks.
[798.92 --> 800.32] The severance package.
[801.02 --> 804.24] That would usually be accompanied by some kind of agreement as well.
[804.82 --> 806.96] Like, here's some buckets of money.
[807.36 --> 811.02] You can't do these things for X amount of time after you leave.
[811.10 --> 812.16] That would be fairly typical.
[812.56 --> 816.28] So we're pretty sure Google has their butts covered here, and this is going to end up
[816.28 --> 818.72] being a pretty uncomfortable situation.
[819.52 --> 826.26] But the other sort of possible outcome of this is that he's got so many hundreds of millions
[826.26 --> 830.64] of dollars that it could end up dragged out in court for a very, very long time.
[831.48 --> 832.62] Nothing like lengthy litigation.
[832.90 --> 837.86] So this is a quote from the suit that apparently he took, this is a quote,
[837.86 --> 844.78] extraordinary efforts to raid Waymo's design server and then conceal his activities.
[845.36 --> 850.88] And they are alleging that his web searches, downloads, and access to an external drive
[850.88 --> 854.74] left digital footprints that they plan to use to bring this suit against him.
[854.74 --> 859.10] And you can also certainly use that stuff to say, oh, this dude knew what he was doing
[859.10 --> 860.98] was wrong, and that does not look good in court.
[861.40 --> 863.28] So there you go.
[863.28 --> 870.16] So the original article here is from forums.overclockers.uk, and I'm going to get John to bring it up.
[870.32 --> 870.50] Okay.
[871.18 --> 872.34] Do you have the dock open?
[872.54 --> 874.46] I can't get to it on this laptop.
[874.66 --> 875.64] You can't get to the dock?
[876.62 --> 878.16] You can't get to the dock?
[878.24 --> 878.70] No, it's fine.
[878.76 --> 879.58] Just give me one second.
[879.78 --> 881.20] We're going to do this, guys.
[881.24 --> 881.86] It's going to be okay.
[882.62 --> 884.34] We're going to do this the old-fashioned way.
[884.44 --> 886.48] We're going to do this the iPhone one way.
[887.14 --> 888.30] No copy-paste.
[889.04 --> 889.74] You just...
[889.74 --> 890.40] Just do it.
[890.48 --> 890.92] Just do it.
[890.92 --> 891.14] Hold on.
[891.14 --> 891.74] If you want to get something...
[891.74 --> 892.08] Here we go.
[892.22 --> 892.92] Is this it?
[892.92 --> 893.84] Do we have it?
[893.84 --> 894.22] Do we have it?
[894.34 --> 894.74] Do we have it?
[894.74 --> 895.52] I think that's it.

[627.84 --> 630.32] case, but let's say they did this and there was no confidentiality.

[630.32 --> 632.42] They just told him, oh, you're hired.

[632.48 --> 633.14] You started on Monday.

[633.62 --> 639.28] Even so, trade secret law, my understanding is it could still begin because it has to

[639.28 --> 639.94] be-

[639.94 --> 646.90] If it's information that isn't publicly available and there's some sort of, like, possible real

[646.90 --> 651.94] economic benefit or business benefit to that company, and they actually made efforts to

[651.94 --> 652.54] protect it.

[652.64 --> 656.24] Like, Google wasn't being all loosey-goosey with this information, but they were actually

[656.24 --> 657.06] trying to protect it.

[657.06 --> 657.36] Okay.

[657.48 --> 660.64] So, it's not like how to get to the bathroom on the second floor.

[660.76 --> 660.98] Right.

[661.06 --> 664.96] It's got to be something that's not publicly known and might have some sort of real economic

[664.96 --> 665.32] value.

[665.44 --> 670.20] So, as long as Google made reasonable efforts to protect that, then even if he had no

[670.20 --> 674.12] agreement saying, you can't sell this stuff to competitors, then they could still go after

[674.12 --> 674.58] him in court.

[674.96 --> 675.28] Okay.

[675.52 --> 677.42] So, if that's, oh, okay.

[677.60 --> 678.60] Just, and I'm just curious.

[678.68 --> 682.44] And again, I'm probably digging in a little bit deeper than your three weeks might have covered.

[682.44 --> 685.22] Or your correspondence law degree or whatever it is.

[685.50 --> 686.10] Oh, wow.

[686.10 --> 686.76] No, I'm just kidding.

[686.94 --> 690.48] Well, I did end up working here, so it's kind of what it feels like sometimes.

[693.06 --> 695.42] Okay, but let me dig a little bit deeper.

[695.84 --> 697.10] What if he didn't sell it?

[697.18 --> 705.40] Now, in this case, you can make a pretty easy case for that he sold it because he went and

[705.40 --> 709.88] started a company that clearly had this information and sold the company.

[709.88 --> 712.14] But what if he just gave it?

[712.30 --> 715.08] Is that a different type of offense?

[715.78 --> 716.50] I don't know.

[716.78 --> 719.98] As far as type, I'm not even sure how to characterize that.

[720.12 --> 724.60] But at the same time, I'm almost completely certain you still can't do that.

[724.78 --> 729.44] Obviously, I think there's some trade secret and some patent stuff going on here.

[729.48 --> 731.10] I'm not sure if they had a patent on any of this stuff or not.

[731.66 --> 733.88] But let's say there was a patent there.

[734.36 --> 738.82] A patent actually excludes other people even from making your invention for a set period of

[738.82 --> 739.04] time.

[739.04 --> 741.72] But some things are notoriously difficult to patent.

[741.72 --> 742.06] They are.

[742.24 --> 747.60] But the other part of that was this stuff looks more like trade secret than patent, right?

[747.72 --> 750.46] Because patents are publicly available.

[750.66 --> 753.06] You can go and you can look at them, but you just can't make it or sell it.

[753.52 --> 763.06] So to answer your question, I don't think the fact that if he didn't sell this stuff,

[763.20 --> 765.14] I don't think that would just completely get him off the hook.

[765.14 --> 765.42] Right.

[765.64 --> 770.66] And in this case, I think it was Nphishin in Twitch chat pointed out that we're talking

[770.66 --> 771.72] hypotheticals here.

[771.84 --> 777.52] Google is a smart and together enough company that I pretty much guarantee you every person

[777.52 --> 781.68] who sets foot through that door has signed a piece of paper that says something about

[781.68 --> 786.06] how you don't steal their stuff, let alone high ranking engineers.

[786.36 --> 787.18] So we get that.

[787.36 --> 792.68] But Nphishin also pointed out that usually some kind of...

[793.96 --> 794.36] Wow.

[794.56 --> 794.94] Why?

[794.94 --> 796.26] The word has escaped me.

[796.32 --> 798.22] It has been actually a very long week, folks.

[798.92 --> 800.32] The severance package.

[801.02 --> 804.24] That would usually be accompanied by some kind of agreement as well.

[804.82 --> 806.96] Like, here's some buckets of money.

[807.36 --> 811.02] You can't do these things for X amount of time after you leave.

[811.10 --> 812.16] That would be fairly typical.

[812.56 --> 816.28] So we're pretty sure Google has their butts covered here, and this is going to end up

[816.28 --> 818.72] being a pretty uncomfortable situation.

[819.52 --> 826.26] But the other sort of possible outcome of this is that he's got so many hundreds of millions

[826.26 --> 830.64] of dollars that it could end up dragged out in court for a very, very long time.

[831.48 --> 832.62] Nothing like lengthy litigation.

[832.90 --> 837.86] So this is a quote from the suit that apparently he took, this is a quote,

[837.86 --> 844.78] extraordinary efforts to raid Waymo's design server and then conceal his activities.

[845.36 --> 850.88] And they are alleging that his web searches, downloads, and access to an external drive

[850.88 --> 854.74] left digital footprints that they plan to use to bring this suit against him.

[854.74 --> 859.10] And you can also certainly use that stuff to say, oh, this dude knew what he was doing

[859.10 --> 860.98] was wrong, and that does not look good in court.

[861.40 --> 863.28] So there you go.

[863.28 --> 870.16] So the original article here is from forums.overclockers.uk, and I'm going to get John to bring it up.

[870.32 --> 870.50] Okay.

[871.18 --> 872.34] Do you have the dock open?

[872.54 --> 874.46] I can't get to it on this laptop.

[874.66 --> 875.64] You can't get to the dock?

[876.62 --> 878.16] You can't get to the dock?

[878.24 --> 878.70] No, it's fine.

[878.76 --> 879.58] Just give me one second.

[879.78 --> 881.20] We're going to do this, guys.

[881.24 --> 881.86] It's going to be okay.

[882.62 --> 884.34] We're going to do this the old-fashioned way.

[884.44 --> 886.48] We're going to do this the iPhone one way.

[887.14 --> 888.30] No copy-paste.

[889.04 --> 889.74] You just...

[889.74 --> 890.40] Just do it.

[890.48 --> 890.92] Just do it.

[890.92 --> 891.14] Hold on.

[891.14 --> 891.74] If you want to get something...

[891.74 --> 892.08] Here we go.

[892.22 --> 892.92] Is this it?

[892.92 --> 893.84] Do we have it?

[893.84 --> 894.22] Do we have it?

[894.34 --> 894.74] Do we have it?

[894.74 --> 895.52] I think that's it.